The transformation of a deceased animal’s cremated stays right into a gemstone is a novel memorialization choice. The method includes extracting carbon from the ashes and using high-pressure, high-temperature (HPHT) environments to synthesize a crystalline construction, mirroring the pure formation of earth-mined stones. This course of leads to a tangible and lasting tribute to the deceased companion.
This technique supplies a sentimental different to conventional burial or scattering of stays. The ensuing gem serves as a relentless reminder and bodily illustration of the bond shared. Moreover, it affords a customized solution to honor the reminiscence of a cherished animal, offering consolation and solace to grieving people. Whereas comparatively new, the idea resonates with these in search of distinctive and significant methods to commemorate the lives of their beloved pets.
Subsequent sections will delve into the particular scientific processes concerned, the varied customization choices out there, issues relating to value and moral implications, and a comparability of various suppliers providing this service.
1. Carbon Extraction
The journey from ashes to a superb gemstone begins with an invisible but important factor: carbon. Inside the gray residue of cremation lies the very constructing block of diamonds, ready to be rigorously extracted and refined. This extraction course of shouldn’t be merely a technical step; it’s the foundational alchemy that transforms loss into a long-lasting legacy.
-
Supply Materials Variance
The composition of cremated stays varies based mostly on the animal’s measurement, age, and eating regimen. This variability immediately impacts the quantity of carbon out there for extraction. A bigger animal will naturally yield extra ashes and probably extra carbon. The amount of stays would not assure diamond measurement.
-
Refinement Methods
The extraction course of includes meticulously separating carbon from different parts current within the ashes, comparable to calcium and numerous hint minerals. Completely different strategies exist, some utilizing excessive temperatures to vaporize non-carbon parts, abandoning a concentrated carbon supply. The purity of this extracted carbon is essential; it immediately impacts the readability and potential brilliance of the ultimate gemstone.
-
Graphitization Transformation
The extracted carbon shouldn’t be but within the appropriate crystalline construction for a diamond. It should bear a course of referred to as graphitization, remodeling it into graphite, an allotrope of carbon. This step prepares the carbon for the high-pressure, high-temperature surroundings required for diamond synthesis, primarily setting the stage for the miracle of metamorphosis.
-
Carbon Availability and Diamond Dimension
The amount of carbon efficiently extracted is the limiting issue for diamond measurement. A better yield of purified carbon permits for the creation of a bigger gemstone. If inadequate carbon is obtained from the stays, the ensuing diamond could also be smaller than initially desired. This inherent limitation underscores the valuable and distinctive nature of every memorial diamond, each a definite reflection of a life lived.
These aspects of carbon extraction reveal the fragile stability between scientific precision and emotional significance. The method ensures that the ensuing gemstone is not only an exquisite object however a real continuation of the life it represents. It underscores the outstanding risk of reworking grief into a permanent image of remembrance.
2. HPHT Synthesis
Having meticulously harvested carbon from the bodily remnants of a life, the transformative course of strikes from laboratory to crucible. Excessive-Strain/Excessive-Temperature (HPHT) synthesis shouldn’t be merely a method; it’s an act of mimicking the earth’s most profound forces to carry forth one thing stunning and enduring. It’s inside this simulated geological occasion that ashes discover their final expression.
-
The Core of the Course of: Replicating Nature’s Strain Cooker
Deep throughout the earth’s mantle, diamonds are solid underneath immense strain and searing warmth. HPHT synthesis seeks to copy these precise circumstances in a managed surroundings. Specialised machines exert forces equal to these discovered a whole lot of kilometers beneath the floor, whereas temperatures soar above 1300 levels Celsius. This twin assault on the carbon construction forces it into the tightly bonded crystalline lattice of a diamond. The size of this mimicry is outstanding; the machine a tiny echo of a planet’s personal coronary heart.
-
The Seed Crystal: A Template for Transformation
The transformation would not occur spontaneously. A tiny seed crystal of diamond is launched to the carbon supply, appearing as a template. Carbon atoms, freed by the acute circumstances, start to connect themselves to this seed, layer upon layer, in a gradual, deliberate technique of accretion. That is akin to constructing a sculpture at an atomic stage, guided by the invisible hand of crystalline construction. The standard of this seed crystal, its purity and structural perfection, will affect the standard of the diamond to be grown.
-
Development Period: Endurance and Precision
Rising a diamond shouldn’t be a matter of hours or days, however usually weeks. The HPHT machine should keep secure circumstances, offering fixed strain and warmth. Any fluctuation can disrupt the fragile progress course of, resulting in imperfections. It requires fixed monitoring, changes, and an unwavering dedication to precision. This gradual, deliberate tempo underscores the inherent worth and distinctive nature of every laboratory-grown diamond, a testomony to human ingenuity and persistence.
-
High quality Management: Making certain Brilliance and Sturdiness
As soon as the expansion course of is full, the tough diamond undergoes rigorous examination. Its readability, shade, and structural integrity are assessed. Solely diamonds assembly the required requirements are deemed appropriate. This high quality management is important for making certain that the ultimate gemstone not solely possesses visible brilliance but additionally the sturdiness to final for generations. This stage ensures that the memorial diamond is a chunk that not solely holds which means, however will stay.
The result’s a tangible illustration of a bond that transcends bodily existence. The HPHT course of is not only a scientific process; it’s a testomony to the ability of remembrance, the potential for transformation, and the enduring nature of affection. A memorial diamond grown by HPHT synthesis is a superb reminder, solid in fireplace and strain, that even in loss, magnificence and permanence might be discovered.
3. Colour Variation
Colour in a memorial gemstone, synthesized from cremated stays, turns into greater than a mere aesthetic attribute; it’s a chronicle of a life. The hues current throughout the diamond should not arbitrarily chosen, however moderately, are a direct consequence of the hint parts current throughout the ashes themselves. Boron, as an example, usually imparts a blue tint, whereas nitrogen can result in a yellow hue. These parts, absorbed throughout a lifetime, change into integral to the ultimate, crystalline type. The depth of the colour is proportional to the focus of those parts, which means a deep blue or vibrant yellow speaks to a big presence of those compounds throughout the unique supply materials. Every shade, due to this fact, carries a narrative, a refined echo of the animal’s distinctive biochemical composition. The absence of coloration, leading to a colorless diamond, is equally vital, indicating a relative purity of carbon and the absence of great hint parts.
The sensible significance of understanding shade variation lies within the personalization it affords. Realizing that shade shouldn’t be merely a variety however a mirrored image permits people to attach much more deeply with the memorial gemstone. Some could actively search a stone with a selected hue, believing it resonates with the animal’s character or eye shade. Others discover solace merely within the pure, unaltered coloration, embracing the inherent uniqueness bestowed by the animal’s personal life. This understanding additionally manages expectations, acknowledging that the ultimate shade can’t be exactly predicted, including to the mystique and inherent individuality of the piece. It removes the stone from the realm of straightforward commodity and elevates it to a deeply private artifact.
In the end, the colour of a memorial diamond is a tangible manifestation of remembrance. It’s a quiet testomony to the individuality of the animal, a refined reminder of the life lived, and a deeply private connection solid within the crucible of grief and remembrance. The nuances of shade variation, due to this fact, change into integral to the narrative of the memorial diamond, weaving a narrative of life, loss, and enduring love. The problem lies not in controlling the colour, however in appreciating its inherent which means.
4. Reduce and Carat
The tough stone, born from the ashes, now faces the artisan’s contact. Reduce and carat, seemingly easy metrics, change into potent symbols on this transformation. The diamond, as soon as merely potential, is formed, faceted, and dropped at gentle. The selection of reduce good, princess, emerald is a choice laden with intent. Does a spherical good seize the bubbling spirit of a playful companion? Or does a stately emerald reduce higher mirror the dignified grace of an growing older buddy? Every aspect, meticulously positioned, is an act of remembrance, a deliberate chiseling away of the mundane to disclose the inside fireplace, the distinctive brilliance that mirrors the departed animal’s soul. The carat weight, a measure of mass, assumes a special which means right here. It ceases to be a mere indicator of worth; as a substitute, it turns into a tangible illustration of the carbon yielded from the ashes, a bodily embodiment of the life that after was. A bigger carat could also be sought, a want to maximise the seen legacy. Or maybe, a smaller, extra discreet stone is most popular, a refined reminder held shut.
Think about the story of a lady who selected a heart-shaped reduce for the diamond created from her golden retriever’s ashes. The canine, named “Lovey,” had been her fixed companion for fifteen years. The guts form, she defined, was a literal illustration of their bond. The carat weight, although modest, held immense significance; it was the fruits of Lovey’s earthly existence, remodeled into a logo of tolerating affection. Conversely, one other particular person opted for a basic spherical good reduce, in search of to seize the timeless high quality of their cat’s reminiscence. The carat was rigorously chosen to match the birthstone of the cat’s birthday, layering which means upon which means. In every case, the reduce and carat weren’t arbitrary choices, however deliberate selections, remodeling the diamond into a private narrative.
In the end, the number of reduce and carat turns into an intensely private act. There isn’t a proper or fallacious, solely resonance. The challenges lie in balancing aesthetic preferences with the tangible actuality of the diamond yielded from the ashes. The artisan acts as a translator, deciphering grief and love right into a bodily type. The completed gem, rigorously reduce and weighed, serves as a poignant reminder, a tangible image of a life lived and a love that transcends bodily boundaries. The reduce releases the sunshine, the carat embodies the essence, and collectively, they create a long-lasting testomony, a legacy solid from loss.
5. Certification Course of
The transformation full, a important juncture arrives: certification. This course of is not mere formality; it is the rigorous vetting that establishes authenticity and imbues a memorial gem with verifiable provenance. With out this step, a diamond, no matter its magnificence, stays shrouded doubtful, its origin probably ambiguous. The certification course of is the bulwark in opposition to uncertainty, assuring that the gemstone is certainly the distinctive creation it purports to be, born from the ashes of a beloved animal companion. The Gemological Institute of America (GIA) and the Worldwide Gemological Institute (IGI) don’t certify memorial diamonds constructed from ashes, however different impartial gemological laboratories do exist and supply verification companies for these distinctive gems.
Think about a state of affairs: A household, grieving the lack of their Samoyed, commissions a memorial diamond. The completed gem is gorgeous, a superb blue harking back to the canine’s eyes. However absent correct certification, nagging questions persist. Was your entire course of real? Have been corners reduce? Is that this diamond actually a novel results of the animal’s stays? Certification alleviates these issues. It includes detailed evaluation of the gemstone’s composition, confirming the presence of parts in keeping with the unique ashes. It paperwork the reduce, carat, readability, and shade, making a complete profile. Additional the gem’s progress historical past might be analyzed. This knowledge is then meticulously recorded and offered in a certificates, a authorized doc that serves as a assure of authenticity. This documentation turns into an integral a part of the diamonds story, enhancing its sentimental worth. It supplies peace of thoughts, permitting the household to cherish the gem with out reservation.
The certification course of, due to this fact, transforms an exquisite object right into a verifiable legacy. It’s the keystone within the bridge between grief and remembrance, making certain that the bodily manifestation of a misplaced companion is not only stunning, however undeniably real. Whereas it’s an extra value, the reassurance it supplies is invaluable, securing the integrity of the memorial diamond for generations to come back. The problem lies in deciding on a good supplier who understands the importance of this step, one who’s clear of their processes and dedicated to offering verifiable proof of authenticity. The GIA and IGI not providing companies for memorial gems highlights the necessity to search dependable options with accredited and acknowledged laboratories accustomed to artificial diamond evaluation.
6. Memorial Setting
The creation of a gemstone from cremated stays represents a profound transformation, but its journey doesn’t conclude with the ultimate polish. The memorial setting, the style wherein the gemstone is built-in into a chunk of jewellery or artwork, elevates the diamond from a singular object to a wearable emblem of remembrance. It is the essential step that fuses sentiment with artistry, creating a long-lasting tribute that may be worn near the guts or displayed as a focus of remembrance.
-
Metallic Choice: A Basis of Remembrance
The selection of metallic gold, platinum, silver supplies a silent, but highly effective, declaration. Yellow gold may echo the heat of shared moments; platinum, the enduring power of affection; silver, a fragile whisper of remembrance. Every metallic possesses its personal inherent symbolism, layering extra which means onto the already vital gemstone. A lady, upon receiving a memorial diamond of her departed husky, requested a setting of white gold intertwined with paw prints. The metallic, she defined, served as a relentless embrace, a tactile reminder of the canines presence, at all times close to her pores and skin.
-
Type and Design: Echoing a Life’s Narrative
The design of the setting supplies a possibility to personalize the memorial piece, imbuing it with traits that mirror the animal’s character or a shared reminiscence. A minimalist setting could emphasize the diamonds brilliance, whereas an elaborate design may incorporate symbolic motifs. One particular person commissioned a pendant that includes intertwining vines cradling a diamond created from their cat’s ashes. The vines, they defined, represented the feline’s playful nature, endlessly weaving its approach by their life. The setting turns into a visible language, talking volumes concerning the animal’s essence.
-
Gemstone Integration: A Symphony of Gentle and Reminiscence
The best way wherein the diamond is ready, be it prong-set, bezel-set, or flush-set, impacts its visible affect and safety. A prong setting maximizes gentle, permitting the gemstone to glitter, whereas a bezel setting supplies a protecting border. Every technique presents a special aesthetic, influencing how the diamond interacts with its environment. Think about a memorial diamond set inside a locket, a hidden treasure revealed solely to the wearer, a secret stored near the guts. The setting turns into an intimate expression of grief and enduring affection.
-
Engraving and Personalization: Etching Love in Time
The addition of engraving additional personalizes the memorial setting, including names, dates, or significant phrases to the metallic. This element etches a particular second in time, endlessly associating the gemstone with a selected bond. A father, grieving the lack of his daughter’s horse, had the horse’s identify and birthdate engraved on the within of a hoop setting, creating a non-public tribute recognized solely to him. The engraving, although unseen by others, turned a robust supply of consolation, a relentless reminder of the bond shared. The customization etches the story throughout the piece.
The memorial setting transcends mere operate; it’s the bridge between scientific marvel and emotional expression. It transforms a gemstone born from ashes into a long-lasting, wearable monument, a testomony to the unwavering bond between people and their animal companions. Via cautious metallic choice, considerate design, and personalised engraving, the setting turns into an integral a part of the remembrance course of, a tangible echo of affection that endures by time. The creation is one the place love can be endlessly etched in piece of gem and metallic.
7. Moral Sourcing
The endeavor of reworking cremated stays into memorial diamonds carries a profound emotional weight. As such, adherence to moral sourcing practices shouldn’t be merely a enterprise consideration, however an ethical crucial. The business is constructed upon belief and the sacred act of remembrance, demanding transparency and accountability in each aspect of the method. The next issues are paramount in making certain moral integrity.
-
Carbon Origin Verification
Making certain the carbon used within the diamond synthesis originates solely from the offered ashes is essential. Some unscrupulous practices may contain supplementing the carbon with exterior sources, diluting the sentimental worth. Respected firms implement rigorous monitoring techniques, from the preliminary receipt of ashes to the ultimate certification of the gemstone, guaranteeing an unbroken chain of custody. This includes exact weighing and documentation at every stage, together with spectroscopic evaluation of the completed diamond to verify its elemental composition matches that of the provided ashes. This verification supplies households with the reassurance that the diamond embodies their family members essence, untainted by exterior influences.
-
Transparency in HPHT Course of
The Excessive-Strain/Excessive-Temperature (HPHT) synthesis course of, whereas technologically superior, can have environmental penalties if not managed responsibly. Moral suppliers prioritize vitality effectivity, using renewable vitality sources at any time when attainable and minimizing waste. They need to brazenly disclose their vitality consumption and waste administration practices. Moreover, transparency extends to labor practices, making certain honest wages and protected working circumstances for all staff concerned within the synthesis course of. This dedication to sustainability and moral labor demonstrates respect for each the surroundings and the people contributing to the creation of the memorial diamond.
-
Battle-Free Certification of Seed Crystals
The HPHT course of depends on a seed crystal of diamond as a template for progress. These seed crystals have to be sourced from conflict-free origins, adhering to the ideas established by the Kimberley Course of Certification Scheme. Moral suppliers conduct due diligence to make sure their suppliers adjust to these requirements, stopping the inadvertent help of unethical mining practices. This vigilance extends the chain of moral duty past the ashes themselves, encompassing all supplies used within the creation of the memorial diamond.
-
Correct Illustration and Pricing
Honesty and transparency in advertising and marketing and pricing are elementary to moral sourcing. Suppliers should precisely characterize the capabilities and limitations of the method, avoiding deceptive claims about measurement, shade, or readability. Pricing ought to be clear, with a transparent breakdown of all prices concerned, from carbon extraction to certification. Hidden charges or inflated costs exploit weak people throughout a time of grief, violating the belief inherent within the course of. Moral suppliers prioritize clear communication, making certain households are absolutely knowledgeable and empowered to make selections that align with their values and price range.
The convergence of moral sourcing and “pet ashes into diamonds” shouldn’t be merely a transaction; it is an act of honoring a life and preserving the integrity of remembrance. By prioritizing transparency, accountability, and sustainability, the business can be sure that these memorial gem stones stay a real testomony to enduring love, free from moral compromise. The stone, a long-lasting legacy from the previous, have to be free from future moral constraints.
Ceaselessly Requested Questions
The choice to rework a beloved animal’s ashes right into a diamond raises quite a few questions, every reflecting a want for understanding and reassurance throughout a delicate time. The next addresses a number of the most typical inquiries, offered with the gravity and respect this distinctive course of deserves.
Query 1: Is the ensuing diamond actually composed of the ashes of my pet, or is it merely a symbolic gesture?
The creation of a memorial diamond shouldn’t be a symbolic gesture however a tangible transformation. Carbon, the elemental factor of diamonds, is rigorously extracted from the cremated stays. This carbon is then subjected to high-pressure, high-temperature circumstances, replicating the Earth’s pure diamond-forming course of. Impartial laboratories can confirm the presence of parts in keeping with the unique ashes throughout the ensuing gemstone, providing scientific assurance of its distinctive origin. This course of ensures the ultimate gem is not only a reminder, however a continuation of their liked one’s existence in an exquisite new type.
Query 2: What determines the colour of the diamond, and might I select a particular hue?
The colour of the ensuing diamond is influenced by hint parts current throughout the ashes, comparable to boron (which might impart a blue tint) or nitrogen (probably leading to a yellow hue). Whereas it is attainable to affect shade by particular laboratory strategies, the pure coloration is seen as a novel testomony to the animal’s life. Actual management over the ultimate shade shouldn’t be assured, and plenty of discover magnificence within the natural hue bestowed by their companions personal distinctive chemistry. The wonder in remembering there distinctive being within the diamond’s shade.
Query 3: How a lot of the cremated stays are wanted to create a diamond? What occurs to the unused ashes?
The amount of ashes required varies relying on the specified measurement and reduce of the diamond. Respected suppliers usually want a portion of the cremated stays to extract ample carbon. The disposal of any unused ashes is dealt with with the utmost respect, usually returned to the household or scattered in a dignified method, in accordance with their needs. A transparent understanding of the supplier’s coverage relating to unused stays is essential, making certain it aligns with one’s private values and beliefs.
Query 4: Is the memorial diamond thought of a “actual” diamond, and the way does its worth examine to mined diamonds?
Memorial diamonds, synthesized in a laboratory from cremated stays, possess the identical bodily, chemical, and optical properties as earth-mined diamonds. They’re, with out query, “actual” diamonds. Nonetheless, their market worth differs from that of mined diamonds, primarily attributable to origin. A memorial diamonds true worth is present in its sentimental which means, being priceless within the eyes of the keeper.
Query 5: What assurances do I’ve that the method is moral and clear?
Moral sourcing is paramount within the memorial diamond business. Search suppliers who brazenly disclose their processes, from carbon extraction to diamond synthesis. Request detailed documentation at every stage, together with laboratory evaluation studies and certification of origin. Inquire about their environmental practices and labor requirements, making certain they align with your individual values. Transparency and verifiable documentation are key indicators of an moral and reliable supplier. The gem ought to be guilt free.
Query 6: How lengthy does your entire course of take, from submitting the ashes to receiving the completed diamond?
The timeline varies relying on the supplier, the complexity of the reduce, and any customization choices chosen. Sometimes, your entire course of takes a number of weeks to months. Set up clear communication with the supplier from the outset, inquiring about estimated timelines and requesting common updates all through the method. Endurance is important, permitting for meticulous care and a focus to element, making certain the creation of a very cherished memorial.
The choice to create a memorial diamond is deeply private, guided by grief and a want for lasting remembrance. Understanding the method, asking important questions, and deciding on a good supplier are important steps in making certain a significant and ethically sound tribute.
Additional sections will discover private tales and experiences, providing a deeper perception into the emotional affect of this distinctive memorialization choice.
Navigating the Transformation
The journey of reworking a deceased companion’s ashes right into a gemstone is one fraught with emotion, deliberation, and hope. Deciding on a supplier and managing expectations requires cautious consideration. The next ideas provide steering, knowledgeable by experiences each poignant and cautionary, making certain a extra fulfilling passage by this distinctive memorialization course of.
Tip 1: Due Diligence in Supplier Choice
The business, although burgeoning, harbors various levels of experience and moral dedication. One household, swayed by compelling advertising and marketing, entrusted their beloved Labrador’s ashes to a supplier promising a flawless blue diamond. The ensuing gem was lackluster, a far cry from the marketed brilliance. Scrutinize testimonials, confirm credentials, and search impartial opinions. Contact previous clients if attainable. This safeguards in opposition to disappointment and potential exploitation.
Tip 2: Readability on Carbon Extraction Methodology
The effectivity and thoroughness of carbon extraction immediately impacts the dimensions and readability of the ensuing diamond. Some strategies yield a better carbon focus, leading to a extra fascinating gem. A grieving proprietor, unaware of this nuance, acquired a minuscule diamond, far smaller than anticipated, attributable to an inferior extraction course of. Inquire concerning the particular strategies employed, understanding the trade-offs between totally different strategies.
Tip 3: Understanding the Coloration Course of
Memorial diamonds get hold of their shade from hint parts current within the ashes. The specified shade, whereas typically achievable, is not at all times assured. Accepting this actuality is essential. One household requested a vibrant inexperienced diamond, mirroring their parrot’s plumage. The ensuing gem was a muted yellow, a reminder that even in transformation, the person’s distinctive composition dictates the result. Embrace the pure hue, viewing it as a novel testomony to a life lived.
Tip 4: Documenting Each Stage of the Course of
Preserve meticulous data, from the preliminary submission of ashes to the ultimate certification of the diamond. Request images or movies documenting every stage, making certain transparency and accountability. A lady, suspecting foul play, found discrepancies between the load of the ashes submitted and the carbon extracted. Detailed documentation empowers people to deal with issues and safeguard in opposition to unethical practices.
Tip 5: Real looking Expectations Relating to Dimension and Readability
The dimensions of the memorial diamond is restricted by the quantity of carbon extracted from the ashes. Readability can also be influenced by the cremation course of itself. A want for a big, flawless diamond could also be unattainable. Handle expectations, appreciating the inherent limitations. Acknowledge that the true worth lies not within the measurement or perfection, however within the profound sentimental significance.
Tip 6: Safe Certification from a Respected Gemological Laboratory
Certification ensures the diamond’s authenticity and verifies its origin. Make sure the laboratory is impartial and acknowledged throughout the gemological group. A household, deceived by a fraudulent supplier, found their diamond was not created from their pet’s ashes. Certification supplies peace of thoughts, making certain the gem is a real memorial, not a fabricated imitation.
Tip 7: Think about the Memorial Setting Rigorously
The setting enhances the great thing about the diamond and transforms it right into a wearable tribute. Select a design that displays the animal’s character and the bond shared. A minimalist setting may emphasize the diamonds brilliance, whereas an elaborate design incorporates symbolic motifs. The setting ought to be as private and significant because the diamond itself.
By navigating these issues with diligence and real looking expectations, the journey of reworking ashes into memorial gem stones can change into a significant and fulfilling act of remembrance. The ensuing diamond, although small, turns into a tangible embodiment of tolerating love.
The next sections will delve into private reflections and the lasting affect of memorial gem stones on those that cherish them.
Enduring Embers, Immortal Bonds
The exploration of “pet ashes into diamonds” reveals a convergence of science and sentiment. From the crucible of carbon extraction to the precision of HPHT synthesis, every step underscores the profound want to memorialize a life. The ensuing gemstone, licensed and set, serves as a tangible reminder of a bond unbroken by earthly departure. This course of affords greater than mere remembrance; it permits for a continuation of existence, albeit in a crystalline type.
Although the trail of grief is private, the means to honor a life are ever evolving. Could the tales shared and the insights gleaned empower discerning selections. As know-how advances, so too will the probabilities for memorialization. The enduring spark of companionship deserves a tribute as lasting and distinctive because the bond itself. Let every shimmering aspect function a testomony to like’s persistence past the veil.